On Faceb'k, the comments on R Healey's ComCom-Aurora post have been running red hot. No doubt there will be more. I'll add them at the bottom of this page as they come in. I am not sure how Fbk arranges them. Often they seem to be replies to comments that appear after them, or quite a way back. Pretend it's a jigsaw puzzle or perhaps a who-writ-it.
Ani Persson Do
you actually think they will take any notice of how much noise we make?
Aurora exists in a planet of its own, huge salaries for making stupid
decisions wasting money on being big time property developers, handing
over money to the DCC for the stadium, anything except doing the job
they are supposed to do keeping the infrastructure safe and working
properly.
Shaun Colley Ani
Persson When has the central otago area, in recent times, ever seen a
long term downturn? It is, and was, a safe bet but some people with an
agenda (eg the Boults of this world) made damn sure the public were
against the idea and forced public opinion.
In a normal situation I would agree it is not a good idea, but I have
never seen a long term downturn there and am unlikely to see one in my
lifetime so I would not call it speculation. It was a transfer of a
service for a payment which happened to be a bunch of land. Given that
our then board of director owned the land our depot was rented from and
owned the subdivision one would argue how it happened in the first place
and conflicts appear to be everywhere but when its all going well
no-one looks too hard. It could have been that some of the work was not
given to Aurora/Delta without the transaction which could have affected
the staff there etc but who knows. All I know is without outside
influence Aurora/Delta would have kept the property and made a
significant return but were not allowed to do so. People should be more
concerned with who may have brought the investment forward into the
public domain and to what end...
Shaun Colley Oh
and you are not wrong about what those people are (the mongrel bit) I
just disagree with the idea that they were property speculating when
they provided a service and were paid in land, not an outright purchase.
The same thing could have happened with shares, stock or any investment
fund really
Richard Healey Ani Persson
oh I know Aurora are completely delusional and only the jail time that I
hope is coming to the key players at the next fatality will wake them
up. This is now however a political football - and that's a different
beast.
Shaun Colley Ani
Persson in fairness to them, the property investment idea was sound
originally however poor advice made public meant they bowed to public
pressure and sold just before the market skyrocketed (which everyone
knew was coming) so what became a @$9million
loss would have been an @$10-20 million profit. It was the civil
contracting divergence that really cost them, losing @$100k a month for a
couple/few years isn’t good for ones bottom line...
Richard Healey Shaun Colley
yes, some people made a lot of money out of Jack's Point and Luggate -
unfortunately it was a zero sum game, what they gained Aurora lost.
Shaun Colley Richard Healey
I was most interested in luggate, strange how mr boult pretty much
never pushed the subdivision and then aurora pulls out and it’s
plastered all over property sites everywhere and sells out within
months?!
Les Ingram Shaun
Colley sorry but a utility company shouldn’t speculate with ratepayers
funds, now we have to repay for work not done, we will pay the penalty
for not maintaining the network, we’re the ones who are inconvenienced
when the network fails, and some of us are at risk from dangerous poles,
and we’re the consumers that will go on paying for years to come
Shaun Colley Les
Ingram it wasn’t outright speculation. It was an enhancement and
upgrade of the utility with the payment in the form of land. What was
completed upgraded an aged portion of the luggate feeder and removed a
portion of old wooden poles. Yes it wasn’t a fantastic idea but had it
gone the other way everyone would be singing their praises, even though
it would not have changed current issue.
Ani Persson Shaun
Colley "Everyone knows" the market will skyrocket and nearly everywhere
(not Chernobyl, probably) everyone is right - eventually. However a
utility company has no business *speculating* that this skyrocketing
will occur before they desperately need the money for their core
responsibilities.
Shaun Colley Ani
Persson When has the central otago area, in recent times, ever seen a
long term downturn? It is, and was, a safe bet but some people with an
agenda (eg the Boults of this world) made damn sure the public were
against the idea and forced public opinion.
In a normal situation I would agree it is not a good idea, but I have
never seen a long term downturn there and am unlikely to see one in my
lifetime so I would not call it speculation. It was a transfer of a
service for a payment which happened to be a bunch of land. Given that
our then board of director owned the land our depot was rented from and
owned the subdivision one would argue how it happened in the first place
and conflicts appear to be everywhere but when its all going well
no-one looks too hard. It could have been that some of the work was not
given to Aurora/Delta without the transaction which could have affected
the staff there etc but who knows. All I know is without outside
influence Aurora/Delta would have kept the property and made a
significant return but were not allowed to do so. People should be more
concerned with who may have brought the investment forward into the
public domain and to what end...
Shaun Colley Oh and you are not wrong about what those people are (the mongrel bit) I just disagree with the idea that they were property speculating when they provided a service and were paid in land, not an outright purchase. The same thing could have happened with shares, stock or any investment fund really
John Evans Shaun Colley Aurora and the DCC provide people with no entrepreneurial ability or experience the opportunity to be big time developers without any risk, they use your money. Wall Street, Luggate, Jack’s Point, Yaldhurst, Taieri Gorge Railway are all examples of why the DCC should get out of any and all businesses and stick to its knitting, maintaining sewers, local roads, water reticulation etc. And in the case of reading every contract involving Downers or Fulton Hogan should be examined by forensic accountants comparing contract prices with other contractors. Splitting up roading contracts to smaller providers would also minimise the obvious opportunity for contract theft.
John Evans Shaun Colley Unless it was a very strange contract the land deal must have been done in advance. This kinds of dealings could be acceptable in private enterprise, but no bureaucrat should even think about it or he/she is in breach of their fiduciary duty. The evidence of that lies in the failure of the enterprise.
- Diane Yeldon John Evans I think that is the test of financial competence. Would a privately owned business have taken on what Delta did? If the person making the decisions thought they might risk losing their own money? I think not.
- Shaun Colley Diane Yeldon trust me, we didn’t need any extra work and it is easy to chastise them in hindsight. Like I said, it was always a long term investment and they were never given a long term so...
Richard Healey John Evans
the subsequent enquiry revealed that when the decision was made to
proceed one of the directors - can't remember which one said - we'll
this is going to be interesting, they have a loot to learn about this
type of investing (speculation).
Shaun Colley Richard Healey
if delta/aurora was left to its own devices they would never have sold
at that time, DCHL made the call. Anyway what’s done is done and most of
the original players are long gone.
Richard Healey Shaun Colley .... with the proceeds
John Evans Shaun
Colley one is the mayor of Queenstown, another benefitted indirectly
from the sale of the many distressed properties at Jack’s Point. As the
old saw remarked “only place names and dates have been changed” the
reality is the definition of a Rort. A Rort, your not in it.
Diane Yeldon Shaun
Colley I am surprised that anyone might think Delta’s foray
into land development could have been either profitable or
prudent. I got the impression that they were trying to create
work for themselves, despite the financial dealings and
partnerships involved being unreliable and evidently so, right from
the start.
John Evans Shaun Colley Your not land development or entrepeneurial Investors, your electricity providers!!
Shaun Colley John Evans So no other utility company in the country is allowed to invest in something other than its own network? Anyway you obviously have your opinion and I have mine and I will leave it at that. Personally I think there are bigger fish to fry and some far, far worse uses of our money that you should be focusing on because the property was just a drop in the ocean compared to some of what went on...
John Evans Shaun, no one blames you personally,clearly this form of business was sold to you by executives with stars and bonuses in their eyes, but in retrospect how could an electricity provider be an entrepreneur and land developer?
Shaun Colley I get that, but when you see the patterns of what happens in the area (and what did happen) you also can't blame them too much for what they got into. I still believe they were pressured into selling by public pressure via DCHL and we would not even be talking about this if they had been given even 1 more year, but we will never know. And luggate is better for it now, unfortunately the man who sold the idea to delta also ended up selling the sections and making the money instead of the other way around and then wow he is now mayor 🤦♂️
Shaun Colley Diane
Yeldon trust me, we didn’t need any extra work and it is easy to
chastise them in hindsight. Like I said, it was always a long term
investment and they were never given a long term so...
Steve Tilleyshort The
DCC, DCH, Aurora Board and Aurora management with their various
personal iterations over the years has proved an irresponsibility in
decision making and with money.
As soon as there is any question of the public learning about their incompetence , call in the professional spin doctors, Trapman Tripp and Polson Higgs.
How can the Energy consumers and Commerce Commission trust These organisations and people with future decisions and funding.
So far, Aurora has replaced poles using a testing regime that has seen good poles removed and faulty poles left in the ground, failing frequently, endangering the public. The number of red tag poles continues to be an issue.
Also Aurora has been installing bright shiny nails that gives the illusion they are doing something. Putting these nails in has not altered the foundation soil condition which is often the cause of poles falling or improved the strength of the pole where it is most likely to fail. In some cases nailing has damaged the buried concrete blocks installed when the pole was initially installed to enhance ground conditions and stabilise tip loadings. The blocks get smashed by the nail rendering them redundant.
Questions
Does Aurora lack the engineering expertise and experience that results in poor engineering decisions. OR
Is the management so arrogant that they will not listen to their engineers. OR
Are the engineers so traumatised by their treatment from management that they are afraid to speak up?
Personally I have respect for the reduced number of experienced engineers who have persevered and stayed with Aurora and the young engineers working in a far from ideal training and development environment.
As soon as there is any question of the public learning about their incompetence , call in the professional spin doctors, Trapman Tripp and Polson Higgs.
How can the Energy consumers and Commerce Commission trust These organisations and people with future decisions and funding.
So far, Aurora has replaced poles using a testing regime that has seen good poles removed and faulty poles left in the ground, failing frequently, endangering the public. The number of red tag poles continues to be an issue.
Also Aurora has been installing bright shiny nails that gives the illusion they are doing something. Putting these nails in has not altered the foundation soil condition which is often the cause of poles falling or improved the strength of the pole where it is most likely to fail. In some cases nailing has damaged the buried concrete blocks installed when the pole was initially installed to enhance ground conditions and stabilise tip loadings. The blocks get smashed by the nail rendering them redundant.
Questions
Does Aurora lack the engineering expertise and experience that results in poor engineering decisions. OR
Is the management so arrogant that they will not listen to their engineers. OR
Are the engineers so traumatised by their treatment from management that they are afraid to speak up?
Personally I have respect for the reduced number of experienced engineers who have persevered and stayed with Aurora and the young engineers working in a far from ideal training and development environment.
John Elder What would the French do? I would think they would remove the income with a final power reading on their homes.
- Richard Healey John Elder in West Belfast no one payed the bill for thirty years.
====================================
The
childlike understanding of the financial implications associated with
long term borrowing would be acceptable in a teenager, but not in a
City Council.
BILLION $ DEBT only admitted after Election.
for details see leevandervis.com
Richard Healey 11/12/2019
- Aurora's Maximum Allowable Revenue (MAR) is set by the Commerce Commission. They DO NOT set line charges directly. If, by some miracle, $5m was spent on reducing total energy consumption by 50% that would NOT REDUCE LINE CHARGES ONE CENT. Those houses with lower consumption would benefit, but everyone else's line charges would double straight away to make up the shortfall - because the Commission sets a MAXIMUM REVENUE CAP NOT LINE CHARGES.
At first glance Hawkins proposal seems reasonable - in fact it shows #aaronhawkinsyouknownothing.
In the grand scheme that is the #auroradisaster $5m is sod all - not a trickle of piss in the ocean of debt that the mismanagement of Aurora is creating. Every year Aurora borrows more than TEN TIMES that amount. I'll say it again, EVERY YEAR Aurora borrows more than ten times the amount that they have set aside for fines. Today the program of spend to fix this is set to carry on for TEN YEARS - the reality is that the spend will go on much longer
It was obvious at yesterday's council meeting that no one understood, with the possible exception of Vandervis, how counterproductive this suggestion is. How, exactly, would you target the money at the most needy? The poorest people are going to tend to rent. Do you subsidise their landlords and thereby increase the landlord's capital gains?
The only possibility here would be for the government to put the money into improving government housing stock - but even then any energy savings for those people would mean INCREASED LINE CHARGES FOR EVERYONE ELSE.
The cynic in me thinks that the regions mayors simply want to put a good news spin on something that is an absolute cluster - I think the cynic is probably right.
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